Bethenny Frankel and NeNe Leakes Talk About Falling Out with Andy Cohen: ‘I Don’t Think He Ever Liked Us’

Bethenny Frankel and NeNe Leakes are getting real about where their friendship stands with Andy Cohen.

During a lengthy discussion on Tuesday’s episode Just B with Bethenny Frankelthe two former Housewives discussed the disagreements they each had with the show’s executive producer in light of their crusades for fair treatment.

Both women have a long history with Cohen, and they all rose to fame at the same time — Frankel as the original star The Real Housewives of New YorkLeakes as an OG cast member The Real Housewives of Atlanta and Cohen as Bravo Executive Director of Development, EP and Rising Lead.

And while each of them pointed out that they appear to be “Andy’s favorites” in the public eye, often sitting next to him at gatherings and regularly appearing on Watch what’s happening livethe women said on this week’s podcast that their closeness to Cohen, 55, is not indicative of a strong relationship.

“I don’t feel like we were good friends,” said Leakes, 55. “My good friends, I go to their house or visit them at some point, so I’ve never visited his home… [We were] probably a little more than [colleagues] because I could call him on his cell phone. I went out with him, in the city, I went for drinks with him and I had fun with him. … [But] I didn’t know where it stood. I thought we had a good relationship.”

She went on to talk about her friendship with Cohen as a “real game” every housewife has to play.

Frankel agreed. “He’s on top and moving everything on the board,” she said, explaining how she thinks the game works. “There are always questions, ‘Who texts you the most? Who do you text the most?’ And the thing is, we’re all in the game,” said the Skinnygirl founder, 52. “I remember one year, I wasn’t on Housewives and I went to his house for his Christmas party and there were all these famous people and I felt in particular. And then, you know, I’m sitting next to him at this gathering and now I feel special. And it reminds me of you and your parents … we all want his approval, we all want to be the favorite. We want to be able to say, ‘I was on that show the most.’ It’s like a business card.”

“There’s a psychology that goes on with this group and this series,” Frankel said. “He used to be a CEO and he’s a producer, so there’s this power play… It’s tricky.”

Bethenny Frankel says Andy Cohen ‘probably despises me’ amid ‘reckoning reality’ and legal battle against Bravo

In July, Frankel made headlines by launching “reality recounting,” a call to arms to revolutionize unscripted TV. She is currently working with attorneys not only to expose some of the injustices she claims the reality stars have experienced at the hands of the networks, but also to unionize these personalities to fight for fair conditions and pay similar to the rest.

Her campaign, backed by SAG-AFTRA, appears to have had an impact. Earlier this month, Deadline obtained an internal memo saying that Bravo’s parent company NBC/Universal will implement stricter protocols related to alcohol consumption and mental health support, as well as update its anti-discrimination and harassment policies and introduce new procedures for reporting problems and violations.

In her podcast Thursday, Frankel said she felt compelled to speak out when she realized her silence was in place, in part, to protect Cohen.

“The whole time I thought Andy and I were kind of real friends because we text each other, but we’re not really — I was at his house once for a Christmas party 10 years ago,” Frankel said. “Every time we’re together, we just talk about Housewives. Do I fit in, do I leave? Does that person get fired, does that person fit in? We’re not really — you know what your really friends are like.”

Walking Leakes through her train of thought before speaking, Frankel continued, “Now I’m in this hybrid world where I’m like, ‘We kind of really don’t like each other, but we’re both playing this game.’ And yet, when things happen to me, he doesn’t really congratulate me. And I feel like he has a kind of resentment that I should be shorter than him, because we sort of came up at the same time… So I’m thinking, ‘I don’t think he’s at all I like it. I think we’ve both been playing this game for a while.’ And one day I just decided not to be afraid and open my fucking mouth because the only person I was protecting in this whole realm was him, and he wasn’t protecting me.”

“Hello!” Leakes responded, acknowledging her arrangement with Frankel. “I kind of feel the same way you do. I don’t think he ever liked me.”

Andy Cohen and Bethenny Frankel. Charles Sykes/Bravo/NBCU Photo Bank/NBCUniversal via Getty

Frankel also said that her last appearance on WWHL he was opening his eyes.

“We’ve gotten so used to that environment,” the podcast host noted, explaining that the things Housewives say on the show often sets off a cycle of endless feuds between the stars that play out in the press when women are asked “questions that are so problematic.”

Frankel claimed that Cohen is “always protected from [these kinds of questions], and we’re always fucking skinned alive with Tabasco sauce all over us, naked. … We are outside and they are throwing us like pieces of meat only to be torn apart by that vehicle whose ass we kiss to get in. … And we all play the divine p——ing game, because we exploit him as he exploits us, because we want to promote our s—. But it all looks so disgusting.”

NeNe Leakes drops discrimination lawsuit against Bravo

Leakes also had her own experience against Cohen in the public eye, though her battle was less about sweeping changes for the industry and more about her own personal issues surrounding her exit from the show in 2020.

In April 2022, the owner of Linnethia Lounge filed a lawsuit against Cohen, as well as Bravo, NBC Universal, network executives and RHO‘s production company, accusing them of violating federal employment and anti-discrimination laws by fostering “a corporate and workplace culture in which racially insensitive and inappropriate behavior is tolerated—if not encouraged.” That August, she dismissed the action without prejudice.

Andy Cohen and NeNe Leakes.

Charles Sykes/Bravo/NBCU Photo Bank/NBCUniversal via Getty

On Just B with Bethenny Frankel, Leakes doubled down on his claims, noting that he still has a complaint regarding the matter. She stated that she has been “fiercely retaliated against” since speaking out and that she “has not been able to work in any field of entertainment at all”.

“Listen, I’m a talent, and I’m talented,” she said. “I’m not just a reality star, I’m an entertainer. I sing, dance, act and do reality TV, OK? As a black woman, I have to be able to do everything. At the end of the day, it’s doing cartwheels and flips. They shut down my job. I do everything. So , you mean to tell me as a talented person, I had nothing to lead, I had nothing to act, sing, dance, jump in to clap — nothing?”

“The door was closed,” Leakes added, noting Cohen also wrote as much in his recent book. “He said the door is closed, and obviously when he says when the door is closed, the door is closed across the industry.”

She also used The Real Housewives of Orange County star Vicki Gunvalson as an example of how she says white and black Bravo stars are treated, noting that Gunvalson was able to return to the air for more shows with the network after dropping a 2019 lawsuit against the company.

“My feeling is they mostly said, ‘Fuck that black bitch!’ ” said Leakes. “I’ve never been respected, nobody, to even call me once. … I want fair treatment.”

Bravo did not immediately respond to PEOPLE’s request for comment, but a source close to the situation says there is “no truth” to the claim that either Cohen or the network banned Leakes from working in the industry.

No No Leakes. Charles Sykes/Bravo/NBCU Photo Bank via Getty Images

As for the future of her friendship with Cohen, Leakes wasn’t optimistic, saying she hadn’t spoken to him in three years.

“I called him. He didn’t answer my call,” Leakes said. “I tried to find a way for him and me to sit down and talk, but he never wanted to do it… This is just to clear the air, not for anything else – not to be a housewife, not for anything. Just to understand him and that he understands me, pretty much.”

“I’m actually sad for a person who doesn’t have a forgiving heart. I can be mad at you, but I won’t be mad at you forever. I can’t carry that anger and that hate in my heart forever,” Leakes shared. “He never wanted that [move on]. And it’s okay. I’m not pushing it. Everyone moves when they are ready in their own time. He’s not ready and that’s okay.”

Both women have continued to stand by their crusades — although Frankel, who previously said Cohen “probably despises me,” admitted she takes into account how he feels.

“I feel bad for how I imagine his mind is experiencing that,” she said. “He thinks he represents an institution that has given us opportunities that have been incredible for us, and we’re not denying that. But we’ve all worked for it… I’m sorry about that, he must think I’ve f—ed him up when it wasn’t about him.”

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Cohen has not made any public statement about Frankel’s or Leakes’ claims. PEOPLE has reached out for comment.

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