DISGRACED ex-Post Office boss Paula Vennells broke down in tears as she gave evidence for the first time at the Horizon IT public inquiry today.
Vennells, 65, was the Post Office’s chief executive between 2012 and 2019, earning a total of £5.1m while leading the organisation.
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Paula Vennells gives evidence to the inquiry at Aldwych House, LondonCredit: PA
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The former Post Office boss burst into tears as the three-day grilling beganCredit: PA
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Vennells arrives to give evidence to the Post Office Horizon IT InquiryCredit: Dan Charity
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The former Post Office chief executive was flanked by cops outside the inquiryCredit: AFP
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The incredible miscarriage of justice saw an ITV drama made based on the true storyCredit: Rex Features
She was in charge when a faulty IT system led to hundreds of sub-postmasters being wrongfully convicted for theft, fraud and false accounting.
The unjust convictions, which happened between 2000 and 2014, were based on information from a new computer system named Horizon.
Former chief executive Vennells, who was formally stripped of her CBE by the King earlier this year, broke down in tears today while being grilled at Aldwych House in London.
Vennells reached for a tissue after Jason Beer KC asked her about evidence given to MPs in 2015 about the success of Horizon prosecutions that was demonstrably false, she choked up and began crying.
The former Post Office boss told MPs at the time that there had not been a case investigated where the Horizon system had been at fault.
Jason Beer KC asks: “Why were you telling these parliamentarians that every prosecution involving the Horizon system had been successful and had found in favour of the Post Office?”
He points out that several accused postmasters had been acquitted by a jury, having blamed Horizon for the cause of money losses, by the time she spoke to MPs.
Vennells continued after regaining composure to say “I fully accept now that the Post Office knew that.
“Personally I didn’t know that and I’m incredibly sorry that it happened to those people and to so many others.”
Jason Beer KC then turned to the case of Martin Griffiths, who tragically took his own life.
An email from Mr Bates criticising the Post Office after Mr Griffiths had stepped in front of the bus was shown during Ms Vennells’s evidence to the Horizon IT inquiry.
But Vennells claimed that accusations of blame by campaigner Alan Bates were “unhelpful” after Griffiths’ death.
Mr Griffiths, a father of two, was pursued by the Post Office for alleged shortfalls of £60,000.
Post Office boss Paula Vennells is formally stripped of her CBE by the King for ‘bringing honours system into disrepute’
His Post Office also lost £50,000 during an armed robbery, some of which he was ordered to pay back.
Vennells also began to cry as she recalled the tragic case of Griffiths.
She apologises, taking a tissue and pausing to compose herself.
“In every email that I wrote on this, my first concern was for Mr Griffiths and his family.
“Sorry is an inadequate word. I’m just so sorry that Mr Griffiths is not here today.”
The inquiry is shown an email sent to Vennells from Alan Bates, who was also an accused sub-postmaster, that he had received from the family of Mr Griffiths.
In the email, the family blame the “bully boys at the crown office” for Mr Griffiths’s suicide.
In the email, Mr Bates said Mr Griffiths’s case was a “prime example of the thuggery being exerted on defenceless subpostmasters” as he was said to have been denied legal representation during a meeting by “arrogant and uncontrolled Post Office personnel”.
With the email on screen, Vennells said Mr Bates was “rightly very, very angry about this” but his language about Post Office colleagues “was extreme”.
Vennells responded: “I think at this stage some of those accusations of blame were unhelpful, yes, because the Post Office needed to respond to this properly and at that stage, I had no understanding as to what had gone on.”
The disgraced Post Office boss said she wanted to express “how sorry I am for all that subpostmasters and their families… have suffered”, as she began to give evidence to the inquiry.
‘NO KNOWLEDGE’
She added: “I followed and listened to all of the human impact statements and I was very affected by them.
“I remember listening to one postmaster whose name I noted who said that he would like somebody to go and stand outside his old Post Office with him so he could tell them exactly what he had gone through. I would do that. I am very, very sorry.”
Vennells was given a self-incrimination warning by chairman Sir Wyn Williams at the start of her evidence, but told him: “Thank you, Sir Wyn… I plan to answer all questions.”
Vennells reveals in her written witness statement that she had “no knowledge of the Horizon system” when she joined the Post Office and that nobody at the firm told of her any bugs, errors or defects.
She says her induction process as network director, the role she held before she was made chief executive, did not include “any specific briefings or presentations” about Horizon.
She does say there were annual training sessions in the run-up to the Christmas period on how to operate a Horizon terminal but that this was “basic” and did not cover accounting or technical IT issues.
“If I was working in a branch and had a query, or a customer presented with a more complex transaction, I deferred to one of the Crown staff members for help,” she says.
Former Subpostmaster calls for honesty
Seema Misra, who ran a Post Office in West Byfleet, Surrey, was jailed in 2010.
Seema, who was pregnant at the tie, was accused of stealing £74,000.
Asked what she would say to Ms Vennells, Ms Misra told reporters outside Aldwych House on Wednesday: “Please, for god’s sake, speak truth.
“That’s what we all deserve, we’ve been fighting such a long time … we want to know exactly what happened.”
Ms Misra said she “of course” feels strongly about what Ms Vennells is going to tell the inquiry, adding: “We’ve heard her name so many times.”
She said that no matter what happens, “we won’t give up”.
Vennells told the inquiry she was not aware of any documentation suggesting the Horizon IT system had more than 600 bugs and defects.
The former Post Office boss is asked by Jason Beer KC if she knew about the 2013 documents.
“I don’t believe so, no,” she adds.
She refers to the 600 bugs in her witness statement, saying if individual cases had been completed, they may have been discovered by the Post Office.
She clarifies that the knowledge came from a document she has since read, but she was not aware of the bugs at the time.
In his questions to the former chief executive, counsel to the inquiry Jason Beer KC asked: “Was there a conspiracy at the Post Office, which lasted for nearly 12 years, involving a wide range of people, differing over time, to deny you information and to deny you documents and to falsely give you reassurance?”
Vennells replied: “No, I don’t believe that was the case.”
She went on: “I have been disappointed, particularly more recently, listening to evidence of the inquiry where I think I remember people knew more than perhaps either they remembered at the time or I knew of at the time.
“I have no sense that there was any conspiracy at all. My deep sorrow in this is that I think that individuals, myself included, made mistakes, didn’t see things, didn’t hear things.
“I may be wrong but that wasn’t the impression that I had at the time, I have more questions now but a conspiracy feels too far-fetched.”
Asked who was responsible for organising and structuring the company, she said: “As CEO you are accountable for everything. You have experts to report to you.
“One of my reflections of all of this – I was too trusting. I did probe and I did ask questions, and I’m disappointed where information wasn’t shared, and it has been a very important time for me to plug some of those gaps.”
Asked if she was “preoccupied” with the need to “protect” the brand – she agrees she was, but “not…above the suffering of sub postmasters”.
Sorry is an inadequate word. I’m just so sorry that Mr Griffiths is not here today.”
Ex-Post Office boss Paula Vennells
During her opening statement, Vennells apologised specifically to former sub-postmaster and lead campaigner Alan Bates.
She said: “I would just like to say – and I’m grateful for the opportunity to do this – how sorry I am for all that subpostmasters and their families and others have suffered as a result of all of the matters that the inquiry is looking into.
“I followed and listened to all of the human impact statements and I was very affected by them.”
Vennells added: “I also offer my apologies to Alan Bates, Ian Henderson, Ron Warmington, Lord Arbuthnot and all those who worked with them to secure justice for the subpostmasters.”
Vennells arrived in London on a grey morning surrounded by cops and refused to answer any questions as she was escorted into Aldwych House at around 7.45am today.
It was the first time Vennells has publicly spoken about her role in the scandal for nearly a decade.
She will give three days of evidence and her main witness statement runs to nearly 900 pages, including the index of all the documents that have been put to her to comment on.
Vennells may also be questioned on whether she believed there were any miscarriages of justice during her tenure after Alisdair Cameron, the chief financial officer, told the probe she did not and “could not have got there emotionally”.
Hundreds of subpostmasters were wrongly convicted of stealing after the Post Office’s defective Horizon accounting system made it appear as though money was missing at their branches.
Sub-postmasters complained about bugs in the system – which in some cases amounted to differences of thousands of pounds – and some even tried to fix the issue with their own money or remortgaging their homes.
This is your chance to put it out there. Do what you feel is right.
Former sub-postmaster Lee Castleton to Vennells
The Post Office also forced at least 4,000 branch managers to pay back cash based on the flawed data.
Some victims were sent to prison or financially ruined, others were shunned by their communities, while some took their own lives.
Speaking before the hearing today, former sub-postmaster Lee Castleton said he was hoping to hear “the truth”.
Mr Castleton, from Bridlington, East Yorkshire, was found to have a £25,000 shortfall at his branch in 2004.
He was made bankrupt after he lost his legal battle with the Post Office.
Mr Castleton said: “I’m really looking forward to listen to what she has to say. It’s a good platform for her to finally speak.
“She’s not been able to, for whatever reason, speak for all these years.
“I think it’s important that she is listened to and heard and then we can all judge that.”
He continued: “Let’s hear what, why and when, and who – who was involved in those decisions, why those decisions were made.
THE POST OFFICE SCANDAL – A TIMELINE OF KEY EVENTS
– 1999
The Horizon IT system starts to be rolled out in Post Office branches across the UK.
– 2000
Alan Bates reports issues with the Horizon IT system.
– 2003
Alan Bates has his contract terminated after refusing to accept liability for the shortfalls in the accounts at his Llandudno branch in North Wales.
– 2004
Lee Castleton, from Bridlington, East Yorkshire, was found to have a £25,000 shortfall at his branch. He was made bankrupt after he lost his legal battle with the Post Office.
– 2009
Computer Weekly magazine breaks the story of seven subpostmasters beginning their fight for justice.
The Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance is established.
– 2010
Pregnant subpostmaster Seema Misra, who ran a post office in West Byfleet, Surrey, is jailed after being accused of stealing £74,000.
– 2015
Post Office boss Paula Vennells tells the business select committee that there is no evidence of miscarriages of justice.
Post Office halts prosecutions of subpostmasters.
– 2017
Legal action is launched against the Post Office by a group of 555 subpostmasters.
– 2019
A High Court judge rules that Horizon contained a number of “bugs, errors and defects” and there was a “material risk” that shortfalls in Post Office branch accounts were caused by the system.
The Post Office agreed to pay out £58million to the 555 subpostmasters.
Post Office boss Paula Vennells is appointed a CBE.
– 2020
The Post Office does not oppose 44 appeals against convictions of subpostmasters.
– 2021
A statutory inquiry looking into the failings of the Horizon system and the wrongful convictions of subpostmasters begins.
The Court of appeal quashes 39 wrongful crown court convictions.
– 2023
The Government announces that every wrongly convicted subpostmaster will be offered £600,000 in compensation.
– 2024
ITV drama Mr Bates vs The Post Office airs for the first time.
The Metropolitan Police say they are looking at “potential fraud offences arising out of these prosecutions”, for example “monies recovered from subpostmasters as a result of prosecutions or civil actions”.
“And let’s listen to the other side of what we’ve heard already, which is the impact of those decisions, to hear what the reasons for those decisions were.”
Asked what message he would send to Ms Vennells if he could, Mr Castleton said: “This is your chance to put it out there. The world’s listening, if you like. Do what you feel is right.”
In 2017, a group of 555 sub-postmasters took legal action against the Post Office.
In 2019, it agreed to pay them £58m in compensation, but much of the money went on legal fees.
Following the scandal, Ms Vennells said she is “truly sorry” and quit her other positions at the NHS, Cabinet Office, Morrisons, Dunelm and as a minister with the Church of England.
A Post Office spokesperson said: “The statutory Public Inquiry, chaired by a judge with the power to question witnesses under oath, is the best forum to examine the issues raised by this evidence.
“We continue to remain fully focused on supporting the Inquiry get to the truth of what happened and accountability for that.”
The harrowing story was retold in the ITV drama Mr Bates Vs The Post Office, which has left viewers appalled and astonished.
Actress Lia Williams played Vennells.
Fujitsu, the firm behind the Horizon software, vowed not to take new taxpayer-funded public works when the ITV drama sparked outrage in January.
After the ITV show, Fujitsu’s Europe CEO Paul Patterson apologised to sub-postmasters for the company’s role in the Horizon IT scandal.
When did Paula Vennells resign?
Paula Vennells was managing director of the Post Office from 2010 to 2012 and chief executive from 2012 to 2019.
As she resigned, hundreds of employees were still falsely branded thieves by the organisation.
After resigning, she went on to work as associate minister in the Diocese of St Albans.
She also took the roles of chair of Imperial College Healthcare NHS trust and non-executive director at the Cabinet Office.
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More than 700 sub-postmasters were convicted between 1999 and 2015Credit: EPA
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Paula Vennells was chief executive of the Post Office from 2012 to 2019Credit: PA
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